Legislature(2001 - 2002)
04/11/2001 01:10 PM House RES
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HB 129-FREE PARK PERMITS: DISABLED VETS/SR. CIT CO-CHAIR MASEK announced that the first order of business would be HOUSE BILL NO. 129, "An Act relating to lifetime state park developed campsite permits." Number 0142 JENNIFER YUHAS, Staff to Representative Beverly Masek, Alaska State Legislature, came before the committee to testify on behalf of Representative Masek, the sponsor (by request) of HB 129. She paraphrased the sponsor statement [included in the committee packet], which read: This bill was introduced to support [our] older Alaskans. Seniors have every right to enjoy the beauty of our great state. Many have made a [long- term] contribution to Alaska's economy and community. Senior citizens generally find [themselves] on a fixed income. The Alaska Commission on Aging reports that the average annual income of an Alaskan senior citizen is $8,097. Alaska has many other programs that recognize this. Persons sixty years and older are able to receive a hunting and fishing license at no charge. [Renters'] rebates are available for those sixty-five and over, as well as auto tax exemptions, exemptions for fees for property appraisals, food distribution, financial and medical assistance, energy assistance, rental assistance, and free college tuition. Giving our older Alaskans use of our parks would encourage their participation in wholesome outdoor activities that will enhance their quality of life. House Bill 129 is a reasonable recognition of our elders' contribution to our state. [Also included in the committee packet was Ms. Yuhas's written testimony, which was handed out to the committee members.] Number 0423 CAROL CARROLL, Director, Division of Support Services, Department of Natural Resources (DNR), told the committee the department certainly does not oppose HB 129 and recognizes that it is the policy of the legislature to set benefits to seniors; however, the Division of Parks & Outdoor Recreation ("State Parks") is 32 percent funded from fees and the bill would increase the cost of the department. MS. CARROLL suggested many costs reflected in the fiscal note could be eliminated if the sponsor would accept an amendment changing the permit from a lifetime pass to an annual one. The process used for everybody now would remain the same: "We could sell them the same decal, et cetera, and they would just come in yearly for their free pass." Conversely, the lifetime pass would involve setting up another decal and "tracking." MS. CARROLL told the committee that anytime the department does away with fees, there will be some impact. Although [DNR] has attempted to estimate the fiscal impact, the figures represent a "best guess" since the department does not count people or ask their age. MS. CARROLL explained that with an amendment to change the process to an annual one, there would be the following: a zero fiscal note, with a funding source switched between program receipts and the general fund; a best estimate of which fees would no longer be coming to the department; and [an estimate] of how much of the general funds would be required to replace [program receipts] in order to avoid a service impact on the parks. MS. CARROLL cautioned that the department is only appropriated a certain amount; therefore, any fees coming in over the amount estimated would go into the general fund. She emphasized that there would be a net zero revenue impact on the bill. Number 0700 CO-CHAIR MASEK referred to the DNR's fiscal note [in committee packets] provided by Jim Stratton, Director, Division of Parks & Outdoor Recreation. She asked Ms. Yuhas to answer some of the concerns mentioned by Ms. Carroll. Number 0728 MS. YUHAS stated her belief that Ms. Carroll had reviewed [the fiscal note] directly before the meeting and had addressed some of her own concerns regarding the fiscal note. She said, "One of the things that I had brought up was changing the way they did the pass to eliminate the printing and the other fees associated in the fiscal note." Ms. Yuhas explained that the DNR's original fiscal note included fees for creating and printing a brand-new pass. She agreed with Ms. Carroll that if [the department] issued an annual pass, then everything would not have to be restructured. MS. YUHAS offered her belief that an entirely new database wouldn't be necessary to track the information. She said she would like someone to research what it would cost to track the following two items: issuing park passes at no charge, and [checking] that people are over 65 years old. MS. YUHAS mentioned State Parks' RSA [reimbursable services agreement], a public information center, and printing costs. Pointing out that nothing in the bill gives an effective date, she said the committee has the liberty to decide when it would be effective, and could do so in conjunction with the printing schedule of the department to save on costs, or else the department could wait until it's time to reprint. MS. YUHAS suggested if a new database is not being created, then there will not be a fee for maintenance of the database. She said there are a number of statistics that State Parks and [the Department of] Fish and Game supplied [regarding lost program receipts]. She commented, "I don't know how we can project lost program receipts [from having free permits] if we can't identify how many people are using the service to begin with." She estimated, from her own observations, that a "generous" 15-20 percent [of people using the state's campgrounds] are seniors. MS. YUHAS mentioned possible concern that the bill may encourage people who are not already using the service to seek permits, thereby causing overcrowding of parks; however, she argued that although there are times when the campgrounds are full, multiple open spaces are available the majority of the time. She concluded by saying she would like to see a much smaller fiscal note and to see the bill pass. Number 1006 MS. CARROLL responded that if there is an impact and the program receipts do "disappear," as the department thinks they may, then there will be an impact on service. It is difficult to estimate something that has not been tracked. The department estimates that approximately 15-20 percent of the people in the parks are seniors, and that 30-40 percent of those who buy yearly annual passes are seniors. She emphasized that there will be an impact on the program receipts being collected by DNR. Number 1075 REPRESENTATIVE CHENAULT asked Ms. Carroll if the annual senior passes are for residents only, or are also for use by nonresidents. MS. CARROLL answered residents. The department has done away with the nonresident passes. REPRESENTATIVE CHENAULT first commented that nobody would know how many of the senior citizens in the state's campgrounds during the summer are actually residents or nonresidents. He then surmised that the number of nonresidents would be higher and asked Ms. Carroll if she had information regarding that. MS. CARROLL replied that she did not have any firm numbers because those statistics have not been tracked. She restated that if the amendment is made, making the permit an annual one instead of a lifetime one, the amount in the fiscal note will be zero but there will be a funding source switch. Number 1168 REPRESENTATIVE FATE asked if it would be onerous to have seniors apply every year. MS. CARROLL said that may be; it's a choice the committee needs to make. Number 1272 MS. YUHAS conceded that the fiscal note may not be zero, but asked the committee to pass the bill anyway "as a reasonable gesture to honor our older ... Alaskans." Number 1330 CO-CHAIR MASEK closed public testimony. Number 1367 REPRESENTATIVE FATE recommended the committee leave "lifetime" permit in the bill. CO-CHAIR MASEK read some statistics from Ms. Yuhas's written testimony that were provided by the Alaska Department of Fish & Game: In the fiscal year 2000, 3,997 permanent identification cards were issued to senior citizens to hunt and fish, and 466 licenses were issued to disabled veterans. She added, "The numbers would probably be a little less for a lot of our seniors." She said she would like the permit to be a lifetime one. Number 1540 REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA said she liked the idea of a lifetime pass, but asked whether there was a way to get around the cost of the printing. For example, a person could obtain one annual pass and then only have to prove his or her age. Number 1497 MS. CARROLL responded that she couldn't think of any language. She added that one of the things found in other states is that once a person has a lifetime pass - if it's a decal on a car or a piece of paper - it can be passed around. It's difficult to figure out how to offer a lifetime pass and not have it be misused. Number 1540 REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA reiterated that she would like to figure out a way to issue a "one-time annual pass," thereby avoiding printing costs and the necessity for seniors to apply more than once. Number 1593 PETER PANARESE, Field Operations, Central Office, Division of Parks & Outdoor Recreation, Department of Natural Resources (DNR), testified via teleconference. He reported that one challenge in managing State Parks' campgrounds is identifying people who have paid their fees and then collecting fees from those who haven't yet paid. MR. PANARESE explained that the system now used is to provide decals for display on vehicles; those people may partake in recreational activities without being stopped each time by park management, because the decals are readily visible. Mr. Panarese pointed out that state employees and volunteers should not be put in the position of having to contact people in vehicles without decals just to find out if they are over 60. He indicated the request in the fiscal note is to come up with a system whereby State Parks personnel wouldn't have to contact a person directly once the pass is issued, but would be able to tell whether a person had a pass because it would be visible on the vehicle or on the person. Number 1705 REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA said perhaps the committee should wait to work this issue out, but she did not understand why "we can't just get a bunch of orange stickers and put them on top of the decal and be done with it." She stated that she didn't see the purpose of "bringing seniors in," and said there must be some way to overcome having to print a new decal. Number 1751 CO-CHAIR MASEK said she plans to have her staff work with the department. Meanwhile, she would leave the bill as it is and send it on to the House Finance Standing Committee, where changes can be made to make the bill work. Number 1765 REPRESENTATIVE FATE moved to report HB 129 out of committee with individual recommendations and the accompanying fiscal notes. There being no objection, HB 129 was moved out of the House Resources Standing Committee.
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